tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1953410733493889728.post5060192473501843387..comments2024-02-29T12:38:32.191-08:00Comments on MUSINGS ON IRAQ: Do Dead Bodies In The Street’s Of Iraq’s Capital Point Towards A Renewed Civil War?Joel Winghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09611810110771744360noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1953410733493889728.post-89088019064708961402014-07-19T01:41:41.109-07:002014-07-19T01:41:41.109-07:00From the new UN paper "Report on Human Rights...From the new UN paper "Report on Human Rights in Iraq: July-December 2013."<br /><br />"Furthermore, torture is a legacy issue; the Iraqi police “rely on old practices” deeply engrained in the institutional culture."<br /><br />The legacy being referred to is that from the Saddam period. <br /><br />The problem therefore is the institution of the ISF not Maliki. There was torture before him, there is torture under him, and if he gets replaced the torture will continue. It is engrained within the security forces' practices and is something they learned and continue to use from the Saddam era. Joel Winghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09611810110771744360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1953410733493889728.post-42731145146937399262014-07-19T01:27:48.975-07:002014-07-19T01:27:48.975-07:00In Baghdad, Hadi al-Mahdi was among four journalis... In Baghdad, Hadi al-Mahdi was among four journalists picked up by security forces at a restaurant Friday and driven to the headquarters of the army's 11th Division. After he was beaten, given electric shocks and threatened with rape, he was taken to a relatively luxurious office, he said.<br /><br />There, he realized from signs and from his own questions that he was in the care of an army intelligence unit.<br /><br />As he waited to be released, Mahdi was asked to sign a statement saying that he had not been tortured. On the way out, he said he saw a room filled with hundreds of detainees wearing hoods. There were so many that they spilled out into the hallway, while others were crammed inside restrooms. A security official in the 11th Division headquarters who declined to give his name confirmed the scene.<br /><br />Mahdi limped outside, his head bloodied, his leg swollen. There, he saw American soldiers who are stationed at the building.<br /><br />"I said, 'Look! Look at what happened to me!' " he recalled. The soldiers, he said, shook their heads. <br /><br />http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/03/AR2011030304953.html?wpisrc=nl_headline&sid=ST2011030400073<br /><br />Mahdi was later assassinated in Sep 2011 by the way. Mahdi lived in exile for 18 years and only came back to Iraq in 2008. He ended up joining the anti-govt protests in 2011 and ran a popular radio show. Many of his followers believe that the government assassinated him. Joel Winghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09611810110771744360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1953410733493889728.post-81900810063776380112014-07-19T01:08:00.399-07:002014-07-19T01:08:00.399-07:00Here's a video from 2014 from Human Rights Wat...Here's a video from 2014 from Human Rights Watch interviewing women who were tortured, beaten and raped in Iraqi prisons. I'm sure each one of them is thinking their experience was better than Saddam.<br /><br />http://musingsoniraq.blogspot.com/2014/02/human-rights-watch-video-iraqi-woman.htmlJoel Winghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09611810110771744360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1953410733493889728.post-20057588147673044302014-07-19T01:04:38.730-07:002014-07-19T01:04:38.730-07:00How can you say the claims of torture are exaggera...How can you say the claims of torture are exaggerations? Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, the U.N., the Iraqi government itself have all documented torture as a common practice in Iraqi prisons for years no. The U.S. forces found numerous cases of torture when they were in the country. Why don't you provide some evidence that all this reporting over so many years is an "exaggeration." <br /><br />Otherwise this argument is getting ridiculous. Saddam was in power longer and ran a totalitarian regime. Is Maliki like that no. But to argue torture is therefore not as bad as under one government as another is crazy. All those human rights reports will tell you that this is a same system under both regimes. Police and army routinely beat and torture suspects in order to gain confessions as that is the main basis of the criminal system. Joel Winghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09611810110771744360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1953410733493889728.post-70974306074307055672014-07-19T00:56:14.693-07:002014-07-19T00:56:14.693-07:00Joel - are you seriously suggesting that 3-4 secre...Joel - are you seriously suggesting that 3-4 secret prisons and the generalised allegations that torture is "common" in those prisons (which is actually a exaggeration) - are you seriously suggesting these equate to the systematic state terror practised by the Baath and also on the systematic atrocities that you have just outlined here, which are being perpetrated by ISI in their occupied areas?<br /><br />Is that what you are saying the Maliki and the ISF have been practising in Iraq? Systemic state terror? Where is this delusion coming from?<br /><br />For your info, in all the references you gave me it was the annual human rights reports of Amnesty and the US state department that were clearly persuasive that what was being alleged in Iraq, Joel, was replicated in every single arab country in the ME and Iran. Every single one.<br />And yet nobody would suggest that in all these countries was being practiced the systematic state terror of Saddam's Baath or the systematic atrocities of ISIS and their Baath comrades to compel obedience in the areas they now occupy?<br /><br />btw - I inadvertently posted this comment in the wrong thread - it should be in the thread "Islamic State Carries Out Intimidation Campaign Destroying Homes And Kidnapping And Murdering People In Northern Iraq"<br /><br />I would appreciate if you could move these comments to there, if it is not too much trouble.Otherwise they are out of context.<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1953410733493889728.post-47551209856231233582014-07-18T01:38:11.557-07:002014-07-18T01:38:11.557-07:00BB
your argument seems to be well they only caugh...BB<br /><br />your argument seems to be well they only caught 3-4 secret prisons being run by Maliki and torture is common for almost anyone who gets arrested by the ISF, but it's not 30 years worth so what's the problem? It's obviously a problem in Iraq and was a major complaint of over 1 year of protests. I mean really do you think the people that get raped in prison think well it's not as bad as Saddam? Joel Winghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09611810110771744360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1953410733493889728.post-61663490985904111192014-07-18T01:30:18.889-07:002014-07-18T01:30:18.889-07:00Illuminating post. This is what I was expecting yo...Illuminating post. This is what I was expecting you would provide back on an earlier thread when I asked for evidence of Maliki's atrocities, sectarian and otherwise.<br /><br />While I appreciated all the references you provided and spent several days chasing up most of them there was nothing, Joel, just nothing, that approached the levels of state wide terrorism, brutality and atrocity against the Iraqi people as occurred for 30 years under Saddam's Baath and are now occurring under the salafi/Baath insurgency in the over-run Sunni areas.<br /><br />What is Maliki's real crime? Incompetence? bbnoreply@blogger.com