Wednesday, August 10, 2011

AL ARABIYA VIDEO: Iraq: Oil And Gas Part 2


Anonymous said...

To you who trying twisting facts and history of Iraqi oil filed in southern Iraq which lead to the invasion of Kuwait these are document history still hold with Britt’s foreign ministry and military document also in many international agencies includes UN.

This is to shut up those who setting far there and spreading biased views and false information about Iraq and his legal borders.

الحقيقة الغائبة منذُ واحد وعشرين عاما ! خلفيات أعادة الكويت للعراق
رد ساحق وموثق على كل من يتطاول على حقوق العراق

Joel Wing said...

Yes the border between Iraq and Kuwait was ill defined, but I don't buy that was the reason why Iraq invaded in 1990. Iraq brought up Kuwait's slant drilling, border issues, etc. as secondary complaints about Kuwait. If that was the main reason, why wasn't that the premier argument Saddam made? Instead it was that Kuwait was driving down the price of oil by overproducing and trying to raise the OPEC quotas. Saddam said this was economic war against Iraq, which needed as much money as possible to rebuild after the Iran-Iraq War.

Again, all of the main histories of the war will say that Iraq was driven by two main factors: 1) Iraq was broke and wanted Kuwait's money, 2) It wanted to be the leader of the Arab world and thought that its invasion would rally countries behind it. If you track statements that Baghdad made following the end of the Iran-Iraq War you'll see that it dramatically increased its militant rhetoric going after Israel, the West, etc. in an attempt to build up regional support. Both goals ended up being massive miscalculations by Saddam.

Anonymous said...

Bla Bla Bla....IOI

Old staff keeps on by biased guru,
Do you really believe yourself are “15+ year History/English high school teacher in Oakland, CA. I have a BA and MA in International Relations.”

Go do your homework check those International treaty in Britt’s Ministry or Military library and other International agencies better repeatedly your grab.

Joel Wing said...

I'm not disputing the fact that there was an undetermined border between Iraq and Kuwait. My question to you is if that was the reason why Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990, then why was the first verbal attack upon Kuwait about oil, and oil continued to be the main issue Saddam brought up instead of the border?

Aymenn Jawad Al-Tamimi said...

Anonymous, you are more than welcome to disagree (though Joel is correct here that the issue of the ill-defined border was only a secondary pretext raised after Saddam invaded Kuwait), but your method of debate is wholly inappropriate to this thread on account of your ad hominem attacks. Joel is not deliberately twisting facts as part of an agenda, nor is he lying about his credentials.

In any case, thanks for posting this video, Joel. On a rather unrelated note, I thought you might like to read this article. Naturally, given the relative obscurity of the topic it covers, there will be many things here you already know, but you might be interested in the latest developments vis-à-vis protests and political opposition in Iraqi Kurdistan, as well as a recent speech by the French consul in Irbil that I felt was a welcome, if minor, development. You get a heads up for the point about pre-emptive suppression of protests in July:

Joel Wing said...

Aymenn nice article. There was a piece a couple months ago in Foreign Policy I think about why Kurdistan wouldn't change. Can't remember the author or title off the top of my head right now, will have to look it up. Anyway, the argument was that the ruling parties' tribal connections, patronage systems, and control of the government and security forces would preclude any real change. They simply have a stranglehold upon the system, and no reason to loosen control. There are no more protests and the opposition doesn't have enough seats to stop anything in parliament, which means there's no pressure on the KDP and PUK anymore either.

Anonymous said...

Joel Wing
My question to you is if that was the reason why Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990

Let stop before 1990 here who is invading land form other?
Iraq or Kuwait? my previous links will tell you.
Why then no one come loudly letting that Kuwaitis violated international laws or treaties between two countries on the ground that those " ill defined" boarders are well documented within Britt’s or other military and UN agencies?

then why was the first verbal attack upon Kuwait about oil, and oil continued to be the main issue

Of course, it is all about oil.

"The question that presents itself is why the Bush Administration appears so determined to invade Iraq when the other members of the ‘axis of evil’ appear to be so much more deserving of being on the receiving end of US military action."?
One question here

United States invade e Guantanamo Bay/ Cuba, were there also " ill defined" boarders?
Was legal to US to invade but not to others?

Russia/Chains “ill defined" boarders
Japan/ China “ill defined" boarders
Moreover, more …more.
What you think US will do….

look for oil.

Joel Wing said...

I still don't buy your argument. Your original link says that Kuwait crossed into Iraqi territory in July 1988. This goes on until August 1988, and then it skips to July 1990.

1st Iraq was still fighting the Iran-Iraq war in July 1988. I think they were more concerned about that than this dispute with Kuwait over the border.

2nd why did Iraq wait 2 years to deal with this border incident if that was the cause of the invasion? Your timeline gives no explanation for that delay.

3rd some of your examples of supposed border disputes have nothing to do with that. For example, the U.S. invaded Cuba in 1898 because they went to war with Spain. The causes of that war had nothing to do with border disputes. Japan went to war with China in the 1930s because they wanted China's resources and made up an incident in Manchuria to justify it. Again, nothing to do with a border dispute.

4th you never answered my question that if the border issue was the main cause of the 1990 invasion why did Saddam barely talk about that to justify his actions? Iraq's complaints about Kuwait taking oil from Rumaila was even a secondary issue by Iraq, not the main one for the invasion.

Anonymous said...

لنتيجة أنه فعلا تم سحب الجيش العراقي إلى قواعدهِ الثابتة،

في آذار 1965، وبعد إطمئنانهم من الحكومة العراقية لإستلامها الرشوة، باشرت الكويت بتسوية آثار خط الدوريات المُشترك بالقرب من المطلاع وإستحداث خط بديلاً عنهُ وذلك بتسيير عدد كبير من عجلات الشوفرليت البيكب ذهابا وإيابا ما بين الساحل المُطل على جزيرة بوبيان العراقية والواقع في منطقة الصابرية وشرقا بإتجاه منطقة أم المدافع، هذا الخط الجديد يبعد عن خط الدوريات المُشترك الرئيسي بعمق 45 كم داخل الاراضي العراقية وبجبهه 90 كم، وبهذا التجاوز سيطروا على بحيرة نفطية عراقية أنشأؤا فيها آبار نفطية سموها بحقول الروضتين والصابرية والبحرة و أم العيش وقاموا [وما زالوا] بسحب نفطنا العراقي منها وسيستمرون؛

Looks you miss reading this paragraph?

So it was first lost of land from Iraq on في آذار 1965، NOT in 1988

Joel Wing said...

So in 1965 Iraq and Kuwait get into a border dispute. It flares up again in 1988 when the Iran-Iraq War is winding down. Then Saddam decides to take care of it 25 years after the initial incident by invading Kuwait, but doesn't really talk about it to justify his actions?

I ask again, why didn't Saddam make the border and Rumaila his justification for the invasion in 1990 instead of emphasizing Kuwait overproducing and trying to raise OPEC quotas?

Anonymous said...

I ask again...

The Answer again and again...looks you having problem reading Arabic or missacommunication here
على بحيرة نفطية عراقية أنشأؤا فيها
آبار نفطية سموها بحقول الروضتين والصابرية والبحرة و أم العيش وقاموا [وما زالوا] بسحب نفطنا العراقي منها وسيستمرون؛

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